This is the first episode in a series we are doing with iCivics, who invited us to their National Forum for Civic Learning Week.
Today we share the many conversations we had with civics and social studies teachers from across the country, and we explore the results from a nationwide survey on what they're going through right now. And, finally, what could be done to help them?
To learn more about iCivics and their myriad resources for teachers and students, visit them at https://ed.icivics.org.
To read about the survey conducted by iCivics, click here.
Transcript
C101_CLW01.mp3
Archival: [00:00:03] It's that time of year. Millions of students across the country will soon head back to school. But in Texas, the topics students will learn in their social studies classes are under hot debate.
Archival: [00:00:14] Republicans claim in [00:00:15] a new report that some teachers are abusing their role in trying to indoctrinate kids.
Archival: [00:00:19] In fact, Lieutenant Governor Mark Robinson recently formed a task force to look into that. But Democrats say it's really about fear mongering.
Archival: [00:00:26] Parents have a God given right and role in the raising of their children. [00:00:30] When they send their kids to the public schools, they expect the schools to deliver a quality education to their children in order to prepare them for success in the future. Unfortunately, government schools have abused this trust and have been indoctrinating children with far left [00:00:45] lies and poisoning their minds with woke gender ideology.
Nick Capodice: [00:00:50] Hello everyone. Nick here. Today is the first part in a three part series we are doing in collaboration with iCivics. For those of you who don't know [00:01:00] iCivics, they're a nonpartisan organization dedicated to advancing civic learning, but they are so much more. For the last few years, they have invited Hannah and me to their National Forum for Civic Learning Week. The most recent one this [00:01:15] March in Philadelphia was tremendous. We met a ton of teachers.
Jill Lepore: [00:01:20] We are. Oh my gosh. I used your podcast in my class with my, um, my undergrad.
Nick Capodice: [00:01:26] Jill Lepore spoke.
Jill Lepore: [00:01:27] Thanks to all of you for being here and for the work [00:01:30] you do. That is just just a magnificent importance. I want to begin by telling you a story about apple pie.
Nick Capodice: [00:01:37] And we have made episodes about these forms before. Sort of a the kids are all right state of civics education in the [00:01:45] US. But, you know, things are not all right. Yes, some things are. But it would be inaccurate for me to not admit that some folks, maybe most folks when it comes [00:02:00] to civics, politics, discourse, etc. some folks are having a tough time. And that's what this series is about. Why are we having such a tough time? So today, in part one, we wanted to share with you all [00:02:15] what civics and social studies teachers are going through right now. 2026 and I hope some of the ways we could improve their lives and their work. Stick around. You're listening [00:02:30] to civics 101. I'm Nick Capodice.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:02:32] I'm Hannah McCarthy.
Nick Capodice: [00:02:33] And today we are talking about what Hannah and I learned at the Civic Learning Week National Forum. Specifically, what civics and social studies teachers are going through right now. 2026. Where do you want [00:02:45] to start on this one?
Hannah McCarthy: [00:02:46] Uh, let's not bury the lead. I think we should start with opening remarks.
Nick Capodice: [00:02:50] Sure.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:02:52] So Nick and I are sitting in this massive hotel ballroom in Philadelphia. We are the only radio people in the room, and we are surrounded by [00:03:00] hundreds of teachers, heads of civic organizations and students. And Louise Dubé gets on the stage. She is the CEO of Icivics.
Louise Dube: [00:03:11] Welcome. Welcome to Philadelphia, the heart [00:03:15] of all things civics.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:03:16] And after welcoming everyone, Louise starts to talk about a survey.
Louise Dube: [00:03:21] About a couple of months ago, we sent you a survey to ask you what it's like to teach civics right now in this country. And [00:03:30] about 2200 of you answered the call.
Nick Capodice: [00:03:33] Yeah. So this survey is the reason I wanted to make this episode.
Louise Dube: [00:03:37] About 35% of you reported changing or removing lessons because of the climate in their school [00:03:45] or community. Almost 60% worried about experiencing backlash. 53% said even teaching Basic civic concepts are difficult.
Nick Capodice: [00:03:59] And the most [00:04:00] difficult to me at least. Result from this survey was the answer to this question. Have you considered leaving the profession, leaving teaching due to the divisive environment?
Hannah McCarthy: [00:04:11] And how many said yes to that 21%? [00:04:15]
Nick Capodice: [00:04:18] So we met up with Luisa afterwards and we asked her what these results meant to her.
Louise Dube: [00:04:23] What was interesting about the response is that it validates a lot of other research to the [00:04:30] effect that it is a very hard time to be a civics educator in this country, and I think that's a consequence of the polarization in our communities, and not only polarization, even in a community that's predominantly [00:04:45] has one point of view or the other. There is a vocal, either majority or minority, that has found the schools to be a place where these discussions are to be had or not had. The educators [00:05:00] have told us that about 60% of them are afraid of backlash. What's interesting about that is that it is actually worse in states where they have passed legislation prohibiting or shaping [00:05:15] the kind of instruction that can happen in those states. It should be, in fact, clearer, but the teachers are actually feeling worse.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:05:36] So states were these so-called divisive concepts. Laws are on the books, laws designed to regulate exactly what teachers can [00:05:45] and cannot teach in their classrooms. Teachers in those states fear backlash even more.
Nick Capodice: [00:05:51] They do.
Louise Dube: [00:05:52] It sets up an environment where I think teachers are feeling like they're not quite clear. Where is that line? What can I say, what can't [00:06:00] I say? And who among parents will interpret these laws differently? Right. The other thing that was truly raised, my eyebrows had to do with the lack of support from the community or parents. So today in our conversation [00:06:15] with the state chiefs, they said how important it is to have parent support for history and civics education. That's an critical component of our being able to do this work. In our survey, we found that [00:06:30] that is in fact not the case. So that educators are quite worried whether parents support them.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:06:37] So how much of the fear of backlash is tied to parent support versus lack of support from the school administration?
Nick Capodice: [00:06:45] Yeah. [00:06:45] The respondents overwhelmingly said they feel prepared to teach civics. They feel supported by their Either administration, but less than half said they are supported by parents, and 39% of that half say that that support is [00:07:00] neutral.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:07:00] As in even of those who feel, quote unquote supported, 39% of them don't feel strong, warm support. Right, right. So I want to go back to that pretty staggering number, 21% [00:07:15] of civics and social studies teachers saying they have considered leaving the profession. Did Louise have any sense of what might be causing that?
Louise Dube: [00:07:25] Well, I don't know that I can shed much more light, except that this is a trend. Right? Uh, ever [00:07:30] since Covid, I think you've seen a mass exodus of longtime educators. But then after that, the divisions that Covid really exacerbated in the communities, some of them have gone away and have, you [00:07:45] know, some of the civic fabric has come together in some communities. But I think Ultimately, when teachers tell us that even teaching basic civics is considered controversial, it's not surprising that people say, okay, you know what? Done this [00:08:00] for this many years, I've had enough. Um, and there are and I feel terrible about that, right? Because educators should be safe in teaching about our country always.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:08:10] So what can we do? How can you know, we the people [00:08:15] help the people who are teaching our kids?
Nick Capodice: [00:08:18] I have a few thoughts to share about this. And a lot of them come from teachers themselves that we talked to in Philly, which we're going to get back to right after a quick break. We're [00:08:30] back. You're listening to civics 101 from NPR. And we're talking about teachers with teachers.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:08:37] Nick and I walked around with a microphone for a few hours, asking anyone who was willing to share what it's like in civics classrooms [00:08:45] in 2026, what they wish everyone knew, and what would help them in this moment.
Nick Capodice: [00:08:52] And we wanted to share their thoughts with you. So here we go.
Teacher 1: [00:08:55] And you can use my information, my name, my voice. Yeah. If it sounds [00:09:00] better putting me in auto tune, please do so now. Like if you need a little John me up, that's fine.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:09:06] Have you had to change anything about the way that you approach teaching in the past 5 or 10 years? Yes.
Teacher 1: [00:09:13] So I've had to I've [00:09:15] definitely have had to change the way that I approach teaching. I mean, yes, just alone in terms of strategies. But I would also say content wise too. I'm absolutely switching things up. I have to be really thoughtful about the word choices that I use because some languages become politicized. When ten, 15 [00:09:30] years ago, it wasn't considered political to use certain phrases. Now it has. So I have to be really thoughtful about that. And I walk through topics pretty carefully. I feel like sometimes I'm in a minefield.
Teacher 2: [00:09:42] I think I've had to change a few things. I've had to [00:09:45] consider more. What the community, what people will think or what they might think, or how they could perceive what I'm doing in my classroom. So I've had I've had to think more about it. I don't necessarily [00:10:00] think that's 100% a bad thing, though, because it made me think more about it and maybe come up with more unique ways to approach things rather than just throw out a topic and debate it, but maybe have them, uh, take some time to [00:10:15] research what different people think about it. And not just not just pit them against each other. Maybe come up with some solutions in the middle sometimes. Yes. I have one time been called down to the principal's office because of an incident, [00:10:30] uh, where parent was not happy with something I was doing, but it was more of a misunderstanding that went home and my principal was very supportive of me. I can tell you what happened. So it [00:10:45] was right after the election of 2016 and Donald Trump was elected. And right after that, we were studying the Electoral College.
Teacher 2: [00:10:54] And this was a point where Kanye West, before, [00:11:00] he said. A lot of the things that he has said since then was saying, I was going to run for president, and right then he was just a musical artist and whatever. So I said, okay, if Kanye, what states would Kanye have to win to flip in order to get, uh, [00:11:15] in order to win the presidency? Well, that got home as that. I was already talking about getting Donald Trump out of office and, and wanting Kanye to be president and that he was just elected. I'm already talking [00:11:30] about him leaving, whereas I just picked I heard some kids talking about Kanye West. So I said, well, what states would he have to flip in order to win? So that's where it's a communication thing. And I was brought in and we had a discussion and the principal let the [00:11:45] the mom talk and let her have her say and it was a good, good result. It was a good result. But, uh yeah, so I have been on the hot seat before.
Teacher 1: [00:11:58] In all fairness, [00:12:00] I don't know that I get immediate external pressure from any one person. Definitely not my school administration. They're really wonderful to work with and have been nothing but supportive. Um, in truth. Um, but one of the things that I have noticed [00:12:15] is I think I'm just being extra precautious for fear of pushback, if nothing else, right? It feels like educators are seeing in the media stories of people at school board meetings and, um, social [00:12:30] media blowing up over teacher A or teacher B, you know, teaching some lesson or taking something out of context. And so I'm putting maybe those handcuffs on myself in a way Away without having the [00:12:45] immediate pushback yet, because I'm afraid of the pushback. In all fairness.
Teacher 3: [00:12:51] My school district, even though I'm in a blue area in a red state, um, I really have autonomy to kind of say and do what [00:13:00] I want, but I think it's a, I'll be honest, I think it's a personal thing. I think I've just become so conscious because of the current climate, to make sure that I'm not stepping on somebody's toes. Because even when I look at the teacher, I was, I hate to say [00:13:15] this pre Covid and post Covid, they're a little different. I am more comfortable, but I'm also a little bit more reserved in how I deliver the content. I think a part of it was [00:13:30] I was just bold and young and didn't care then. And now it's just like, oh, okay. You got to kind of pay attention because this is this is our reality.
Teacher 4: [00:13:42] It's kind of like, um, asking [00:13:45] to be, uh, teach nine over 11 so we don't start school until right around Labor Day a little bit after Labor Day. So it's like, boy, let's start. Welcome back students. We're going to talk about this traumatic event that happened when I was a senior in high school. Like they need context to understand that. So I'll [00:14:00] end up teaching it later on in the year. So it's tough when, you know, we haven't gotten to that in our curriculum. And the kids want to talk about these current events that are happening around the world. And it's they don't have the background just yet. So they need the basement before we, you know, put the roof on, as my dad would say, [00:14:15] but it's a lot. And then listen, that might be on a Tuesday. On a Wednesday, something else could change. And they have total they're so curious. I get I love that about them, but it's like, oh, that curiosity is, is not [00:14:30] derailing the curriculum, but it's forcing me to take more time to talk about it. For example, with the recent crisis in Iran, kids are, you know, not only am I trying to teach them where Iran is, but it's also like, okay, they need a little primer on the history. How he got to this point. [00:14:45] And then we can start taking questions about executive powers and congressional authority. So it's a lot to unpack, and that's on top of the curriculum that we're already, you know, doing and teaching. So it's a lot, it's, I would say it's exhausting. It's good work. Um, but it [00:15:00] is exhausting.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:15:01] So that's really our question is, have you had to change anything over the past however many years?
Teacher 5: [00:15:06] Yeah. That's interesting. Um, you know, in a lot of ways. No, I will say that, which is, which is fascinating, but you know, it's, you know, emotionally speaking, [00:15:15] like we have children that come from very diverse backgrounds and they have families that came here for various reasons, and they came here in various ways. So that has certainly affected us. Um, you know, with the administration and policies on immigration and Ice. [00:15:30] And we, we lost, we seem to have lost families and children. They would have been enrolling in our school this year. We lost a lot of kids. They didn't come back. But the way that I teach, you [00:15:45] know, I try to be as unbiased as I can at certain times. And then I also feel like I can use emotion in the classroom and be genuine and just say, hey, this is my bias. Um, so it certainly made it harder. [00:16:00] The political climate, but it really hasn't changed as much as I would think.
Teacher 3: [00:16:06] We all go through education preparation programs. Some may do alternative routes. And those of us that love our job and love what we do, number one, [00:16:15] we're not going to jeopardize our livelihood. I have too many student loans to jeopardize my career. Like there's just nothing else that I can do or want to do but teach students. Um, number two, I'm just the type of educator [00:16:30] and I think most of us are going to treat these children how we want somebody to treat our kids. And so we wouldn't want anybody indoctrinating our kids. So we're not going to do that to someone else's.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:16:41] What would you want parents to know about what it's like in your classroom?
Teacher 2: [00:16:46] I [00:16:45] think they should know that I make every effort, every day to give kids all sides of an issue if we're talking about it. I go out of my way to make sure they understand what [00:17:00] people's perspectives are, because I think that's what's interesting. I like them to understand both sides. I am not going to try to indoctrinate them. Uh, I've tried to indoctrinate them to remember [00:17:15] to bring their iPads and pencils, and that hasn't happened. Every day I think about that, I think about making sure they see both sides of the issue. And when we're doing discussions and debates, [00:17:30] and that's what I see most teachers doing. And I must say for the most part, parents are very, very supportive of what I'm doing when they come to Back to School night. I tell them about what we're doing and [00:17:45] they're like, oh, I wish I, you know, could have done that when I was in school. So for the most part, parents are very, very supportive, but it only takes one.
Speaker 16: [00:17:54] What's one thing that you wish that parents knew about what it's like in your classroom?
Teacher 5: [00:17:59] That I wish they [00:18:00] would come by and say hello more. I've never had a bad interaction with a parent my entire teaching life, ever. Only positive ones. Um, and you know, they're busy. They got a lot of stuff going on. Um, but it's just in our community, parents care very deeply, but there's just not a lot [00:18:15] of involvement because of challenges that they face. Um, so I don't know, I just invite them to come in and hang out and watch. And I could ask them about their experience because I'm sure they have a lot more to say about things like racism than me.
Teacher 1: [00:18:30] Well, [00:18:30] like in all fairness, guys, so and I don't post it on my bio or anything, but like, I was just appointed by the governor of the State Board of Ed and the only teacher there. And right off the bat, we're having a great conversation about, you know, graduation [00:18:45] and what its diplomas and how many credits students need. And I'm walking in going, wait a minute, what about how many classes a teacher can teach? And what about making sure the teachers have the professional learning to be able to teach the courses? And in small schools, that might be really [00:19:00] challenging to recruit those teachers. And and in rural areas, how are we going to get a teacher over there to teach X? Like that's very fundamental into what the work is. And so how, how do you how, how do we keep teachers in the classroom [00:19:15] when you have all of these other layers on top that make it really challenging to do your job? Unfortunately, the current model that we're using for education is not one that in terms of the amount of days we have in the calendar and how this is all built, um, doesn't meet the [00:19:30] need of the current teacher and the current students. So, um, it isn't as much of a pay raise, although that's always lovely for folks on more vacation days, right? All of these types of things and better health care, please. Yes. But I think the system [00:19:45] needs some major shifts, and it hasn't caught up to the kid and the teacher that exists in 2026. Oh, and by the way, you know, political climate that is questioning public education and sorry, can you fix [00:20:00] that?
Nick Capodice: [00:20:05] Last thing before we go. After asking all these teachers about what they're going through and what they need. I asked Louise what is really [00:20:15] driving this difficulty.
Louise Dube: [00:20:18] There is a sense, not a sense, but a fact that public trust in institution in general and mostly towards your neighbor has deteriorated significantly. However, [00:20:30] we've gotten here, clearly we have a lack of trust. Having said that, I think K-12 is one of the last standing major scale institutions to have at least respect [00:20:45] at the local level. So you can ask folks about whether they believe in public schooling or whether they think schools are any good. Uh, and they will answer fairly negative answers. Not so much. However, you ask them about [00:21:00] their local school. Oh, I love my local school, I love this, I love Mrs. So and so and so and so. It is important to note that and not to give up on, uh, or K-12 education.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:21:13] Did Louis say anything about [00:21:15] the future of civics education? What needs to be done to make it better?
Nick Capodice: [00:21:20] Well, of course, she said to listen to the teachers needs to ask them what would help them right now. That's why they do these surveys, but also that civic learning has to be [00:21:30] pluralistic. It has to have diverse perspectives.
Louise Dube: [00:21:34] So we strongly believe that a democracy cannot be fixed by having one set of folks beat up on the other and win. Right? So there's a, um, so it depends what [00:21:45] your operating model is. But for us, that's not our operating model. Our operating model is what is in research for more in common and many other research organizations where there is actually a lot of common agreement about how [00:22:00] to solve our common problems. The problem comes when you think that the other guy is just pure bad, right? And what we want to do is to ensure that students are not told what to think. We need to have a classroom [00:22:15] in which there is a range of ideas, a range of primary sources, and students are given the skills to determine what truth is and to find what they believe. Ultimately, it's not our job to tell them what they should believe. [00:22:30] It's our job to present a pluralism in action, which is means a diverse set of viewpoints on particular issues and teach them the skills of how they might make [00:22:45] something out of that, like for themselves, for their lives.
Nick Capodice: [00:22:50] And also civic learning has to engage in reflective patriotism.
Hannah McCarthy: [00:22:56] You know, I heard that expression used a few times at this forum. [00:23:00] What is meant by reflective patriotism?
Louise Dube: [00:23:04] I think it's a real problem when patriotism is identified with one party or another. Right. And right now, that is the way it is, right? So it's coded red. And um, it, it's [00:23:15] a problem because I think that all of us, uh, if we're going to teach about civics, we're going to teach about the American self-governance system. And that's a process that involves, uh, citizens getting involved [00:23:30] in how we run our country and how we solve our common problems. And that is a patriotic act. And I think we want to be very clear about that. And I think what we want to do is to have a reflective [00:23:45] patriotism, which is one in which we take a balanced view of our countries. We look at what we've done well, and we look at what the places where we need to learn and grow. And that is why we have a more perfect union. That is what the [00:24:00] founders had in mind. They never had in mind that we would just declare victory and say, we're all great. They had in mind that we will continue to improve and do better. And in order to do that, we need to talk to each other. We need to learn from [00:24:15] each other, and we need to solve our problems. I think part of the distrust that people are feeling about this country is that we don't actually solve the problems. Right. There are problems on the table, very little legislative action. All [00:24:30] branches are not acting equally. Never. Having said that, there's a lot of activity at the state level. So that is where local and state levels is, where we are much more optimistic that there will be a rebuild [00:24:45] of trust so we can solve our problems.
Nick Capodice: [00:24:56] Just a few things to work on, all of us. This [00:25:00] episode is made by me, Nick Capodice with you, Hannah McCarthy in collaboration with the fine folks at iCivics. Our staff includes producers Marina Henke and Dana Cataldo, as well as our executive producer, Rebecca LaVoie. Music in this episode from blue Dot sessions, Epidemic Sound [00:25:15] and the always pluralistic Chris Zabriskie. Civics 101 is a production of NHPR New Hampshire Public Radio.